[Clare Steward]

https://laceonrace.com/2021/04/18/dear-nice-white-people-part-1/

 

Dear Nice White People – Part 1

Discussion

[Rebecca McClinton]

There is so much packed in Austin Channing Brown’s article. Thanks for sharing, Clare, and encouraging us to consider these questions. (1) WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? In this work I think Ms. Brown hits the nail on the head when she addresses fear of conflict, fear of not being liked, fear of the destruction that comes with challenging systems. I’ve seen all those in myself. I’d add to that fear of exhaustion (being asked more than I FEEL I can give…a self-protective standpoint, and also linked to the fear of saying no to other things), fear of retaliation, fear of not knowing how to respond, fear of the public eye/media, and fear of hurting others (which I’ve learned here is really another self preservation to avoid the pain of disappointing). Engaging here has been SO helpful in working through these. The requirements here of engaging in each post thoughtfully, and having conversation with other walkers has really helped me push through those in a lot of ways, but there have still been times when I haven’t stood and spoken up or acted reflexively due to defaulting to the fears described above and I need to continue working at them. (2) WHAT QUESTIONS HAVE I ASKED BLACK/BROWN PEOPLE THAT I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERS TO/WHY/HOW DID THIS IMPACT THEM? The first thing that comes to mind for me here, is that I’ve seen in myself a need for ‘hearing more’, as if all that’s been presenting and described isn’t enough. I shouldn’t need a shred bit more of info to believe every bit of what Black and Brown people say about their experiences. As to the ‘why’ of that, I think it’s self preservation again…if there’s some of it that’s not true that some of me I can let off the hook. As for how that lands and impacts Black and Brown people, I know how pissed I get when I’m not taken seriously, not believed or dismissed. It’s soul-crushing. (3) A SITUATION WHERE I STAYED SILENT/WHO DID IT HURT/PROTECT AND WHAT WILL I DO DIFFERENTLY NEXT TIME? If I think about a theme/grouping of situations where I have stayed silent, three situations come to mind, one is when in groups, another when in a hurry (eg: when I’m scrolling and rolling on social media, and think I have to have just the right thing to say), and when it comes to humor/not calling out jokes. Staying silent in those situations protects me and/or ‘protects’ those saying/doing the harmful things from the accountability that is required. ‘protect’ feels like maybe not the right word, because it implies keeping safe from harm, when really accountability doesn’t ‘harm’ anything or anyone. It’s not whyte people that need protecting. Moving forward I will continue to work through those clenches and desire to say just the right thing. Too often that’s me working to word things to create the least wake possible, just another more sneaky version of avoiding responsibility on my own part.

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

1. What am I afraid of? Austin Channing Brown answers it very clearly. As uncomfortable as admitting that she is right – I am afraid because of the consequences of speaking out. I am afraid of being outcast. I am afraid of losing some of my privileges. I am afraid of not being liked and of being in a position of defending and of being “attacked”. I am afraid of losing some of my status as a good wp. I use the words “some of” because the reality is that I will not lose all of my privilege and status because I will always still be white. I even saw this post yesterday but saw that no one had commented yet and so I waited. I cam back this morning, and was hesitant to be the first to comment. Why? What if I start the conversation off “incorrectly”. I find it safer and more comfortable to reply to others than to be the first. When I realized that this morning, I stopped myself and said that’s part of the problem being talked about. I am working on it. I was the first to comment on another post a few days ago – but it is obviously something I still need to root out and build my muscles around.

2. What questions have I asked Black or Brown people that I already knew the answer to? I know I have asked if they were okay when clearly they were not and clearly no one would be okay in the situation. It seems like a legitimate question, and one I have asked wp as well. It is a question that is supposed to show that I care. The reality is that it either forces the person to lie and say they are okay, especially given how unsafe it if for Black and Brown people to be vulnerable and to have feelings let alone to share them with a wp. Or, it forces the person to be vulnerable and to be unsafe in sharing how they are not okay – and to risk having me then turn around and excuse, explain, downplay, dismiss and use other supremacist tools that cause even further harm.

3. Can I think of a situation where I have stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or fear of not saying it well enough? Only all the time. Even my not wanting to be the first to say something is a form of that – the fear of not saying what I want to say well enough. Not saying anything during the Holly situation. As I have learned more and have examined these supremacist weapons and ways of being – I find myself less and less with the thought of not knowing what to say (although that still creeps in) but definitely am still working on overcoming the fear of not saying it well. Some of it stems from what Ms. Brown talked about – fear of the consequences. Some of it stems from being very aware of how I cause harm and not wanting to cause even more harm by saying the wrong thing or saying it in a harmful way. Yet – silence is also harmful. It is an uncomfortable choice. I cannot focus on my comfort however – and taking the time to focus on the North Star will reduce the amount of harm I cause and will keep me open to course correction when I do cause harm. I have come a long way and I have an even longer way to go….

[Clare Steward]

I appreciate that you were the first to comment and I can relate to feeling like I want to wait for someone else to start it off because there is a “risk” in putting my thoughts out there and getting wrong. The biggest risk is causing harm to Black and Brown people because I did not think through how my words would land on them. I wonder if that is where my fear lies or if deep down, my fear is on being called in on what I have said and whether or not I have the fortitude to be held accountable in Hesed love- will I correct my behaviors or will I do the predictable thing and lash out and run away? Will I act with cowardice and or with courage? Will I view correction as an attack or will I view it through the lens of the North Star? I must continue to engage and to act so that what I do is reflexively in line with the NS.

I like how you said that not acting or saying anything is a choice and it is a choice that causes harm. As Lace says, building an unshakeable foundation is how we will overcome our fears and how we will learn to apply our praxis unilaterally in all situations. I keep walking and working to build that solid foundation.

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

I know that I do not want to think that I would be the one who would view correction as an attack – but the reality is that the numbers say I will be. Being open and honest at asking those questions and admitting that it can be me and will most likely be me, helps me to build what it takes to overcome that initial sense of attack and defensiveness so I can see and feel the Hesed love, and respond to that rather than respond to my supremacist defenses. Thank you for walking with me.

[Julia Tayler]

I’m always apprehensive about being first too. I have that fear of not being articulate enough or saying the wrong thing. I also hate to admit that I identify with all of Austin’s answers for what am I afraid of. The article has really made me think.

[Jessie Lee]

One thing that has helped my willingness to take risks in commenting is having the perspective of how much I’ve learned through messing up here and being called in. Sometimes by Lace, sometimes by other walkers. It gets easier over time and with practice… that fight/flight/fear/fawn response that kicks in when I’m called in has become gradually less of a driving force for me. I’ve become steadier when activated and better able to reject that instinct to get curious about how I’ve caused harm and how I need to repair.

[Danielle Holcombe]

Yep Jessie, exactly. I was just rereading some of these comments and thinking the same thing. I often mull over my comments wondering if I’m seeing the message in the OP deeply enough. Lace often says go deeper and my fear of my own insufficiency has always said *you* are not deep enough.

But why would that stop me from commenting? Why would I not comment and even ask for help where I see blind spots or look forward to my community here coming along side me to guide me to the deeper message if I am not immediately seeing it?

It actually has nothing to do with me being deep enough or not. I think it’s rooted in me wanting *me* to be enough. It’s individualism again. I want to have it all within and not need you. But we need each other. Sometimes I will see things Emily doesn’t see. Often Emily sees things I missed. Together, as we work through the material and engage with each other, we grow.

If you are guiding me, you grow and I grow. If I am guiding you in the moment, you grow and I grow. Love growing with y’all.

[Shara Cody]

Focusing on potential to be right or wrong definitely can stop us from trying, but knowing we each have something to share and will grow together in community brings us out of isolation and individualism to counter white supremacy.

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

I love what you say here and it is so true. So often my reactions are about “me” not being enough, but that it is in community and in walking together that we all grow. I find myself re reading things often, but I do not always comment again – but I start off wanting to read comments since I last commented, but also rereading my comments in light of what others have commented. It helps me flesh out more of my thoughts, solidify others and see a different twist in yet other areas. It is an interesting balance between engaging with new content and re engaging in existing, ongoing, content. All of it is so valuable.

[Deleted User]

I resonated with the discussion Miss Austen Channing Brown was having about “the <font face=”inherit”>premise that the connections between the Gospel + race + justice are difficult to find, or require “wrestling” at all.” I was raised in </font>Jewish<font face=”inherit”> household. My favorite holiday celebration was (and is) Passover, or Pesach in which we </font>have<font face=”inherit”> a long prayer service and celebratory meal. This holiday is about freedom from enslavement. </font>

<font face=”inherit”>It was brought home to me, as young as one, that no human being should be owned by another human being. It was </font>through<font face=”inherit”> the telling of the Passover story about the enslavement of the Hebrews by the Egyptians, as slave labor to build the pyramids. There are many nuanced layers and deep symbolism in this story. I am not scholarly enough to relate all of it. Whole books are written on the subject. Suffice to say the </font>inhumanity, the scourge of slavery – in all it’s forms – is discussed in detail in the Torah and the Talmud. Torah is (your) first book of the Bible, the Old Testament. The Talmud, is commentary or deep discussion of the stories, prayers, meanings, of the Old Testament.

(1) What am I afraid of ? I don’t want to ignore what I know to be the most important thing to do: abolish racism. I am afraid of my own excuses. Need to look that straight in the eye and say it out loud. There is work to do. There is no good excuse for not doing what is mine to do.

(2) What questions have I asked Black or Brown people that I already knew the answer to?

How can I help? What can I do for you? I wonder this a lot. I don’t want to harm, or make things worse. The people I need to be talking to, are other pink skinned pale people. I can help by talking about racism to other white folks, regardless of the personal cost to me. The cost to me is nothing compared to the cost to Black and Brown people. I have little to lose, compared to what they have at stake.

(3) Can I think of a situation where I have stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or fear of not saying it well enough?

Yes, with my own siblings and their spouses. They can angry, entitled and abusive, especially towards me. (family dynamics are complex). I sometimes avoid real talk /or calculate my strength on a given day, to cope with the backlash. I pick my battles.

The way that’s changing for me it so say my truth with as much love and forgiveness and detachment as possible. They can only “hurt” me if I allow it. Even if they won’t listen, won’t see, don’t care – or come at me with anger…I am a voice in this universe, and I will say the truth. Anger cannot have my voice. Fear cannot have my voice. Bitterness or resentment cannot have my voice. Abandonment, disowning, verbal abuse. Those are their choices. They own them. I have no control over what they choose to do. I all the control over what I do. I am going to live in truth, whether others like it or accept it, or hear me or not.

[Emily Holzknecht]

You say that you are afraid of your own excuses. Do you think there is fear behind your excuses too? Like you are wanting to excuse yourself because you are afraid?

[Shannon Brescher Shea]

I think it’s so incredibly difficult to find the balance between love and emotional strength because detachment and love can’t co-exist. To find that strength, it feels like we need to be detached. It feels like we can’t let them hurt us. But if we can’t be vulnerable, if they can’t hurt us, then we can’t really love them either, you know? I think that gets back to the idea of “staying in the car.” If we’re not vulnerable with people, we’re not truly in the car with them.

[Christina Sonas]

That’s an interesting thought. I use detachment along with love all the time — from the time my oldest as an adolescent said, “I hate you!” for the first time ? But it’s definitely not de-attachment or disconnection. It *is* a lack of vulnerability — but localized. I’ll have to think about this some more.

[Clare Steward]

When I re-read the article, I had a lot of thoughts about how I try to maintain my role as a perpetual toddler when it comes to anti-racism work. Why? because it is easier to act as if I don’t know better and have someone lead me by the hand and tell me what to do- that requires little effort on my part AND it puts all the responsibility on someone else for the decision making and consequences- If the outcome is not smooth, the blame can be placed away from myself.

We are asked to hold our own hand here and in other spaces- we are asked to have courage to think through and make decisions that are in alignment with our praxis and ethos and to do so without waiting for someone to tell is if we are “giving the right answer” or waiting for others to give their answers and jumping on the bandwagon. It also comes with owning our mess ups and mistakes and initiating repair and correcting our own behavior when we screw up. I can not expect everything to be handed to me and for progress to be made when there is no risk involved- COURAGE!

1) Answer the question that the Author, Austin Channing Brown, asks us:

“What are you afraid of? Release all the bullshit answers about your own frailty, and get honest.”

I am afraid of everything that Brown listed- I am afraid of losing my privileged status, a raise, my job….On a reflexive basis, I allow the thought of losing my benefits to be a bigger concern than the fair and equitable treatment of people. FEAR- the topic of other posts today- I allow fear to render me impotent and ineffective and really, all that is is a way for me to uphold MY position on the ladder. I need to confront this and confront it HARD

2) What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them?

Are you ok? What kind of question is that….and I ask it when I know damn well the person is not ok. It is the wrong question to ask because it relays that I have no ability to use my fictive imagination.

Asking how I can support them would be a better question…unless I know damn well how to support the person in the first place. By asking this if I already know, it puts the onus on the person to ASK me for what I already know they need and it puts a weird spin on the relational. I am making them ask me for support vs being there for them reflexively.

3) Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough?

Yes! and I wrote about a specific situation in part 2 of this post coming soon this week.

a) Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect?

My silence hurt BiPOC employees in the company

b) What will you do differently next time?

I would like to say I will speak up- I have some serious reservations about discernment capabilities in the moment- what I do reflexively falls short. I need to practice and ready myself so that I can quickly and unilaterally apply my praxis in the moment when it is needed.

[Emily Holzknecht]

I am thinking about your answer #2 and I think that is a situation where we ask a lot of questions when questions are not needed. If we are wanting to show someone that they are cared about, we don’t need a question to do that. If we want to help someone out, to hold them and serve them, we’ve already talked about how culturally different people go about this differently and asking is not seen as necessary in all cultures here either.

[Clare Steward]

I agree that the questions are unnecessary and even harmful in many cases. Most of the time, we know what to do to hold the person and support them. I equate the “are you ok?” and “how can I help?” or “just let me know how I can help” as a form of my handwringing and indecisive behaviors….that toddler mentality and frame of mind that puts the responsibility of what to do and how to care for others on the other person when the last thing they need is any additional weight.

[Shannon Brescher Shea]

I think the “just let me know how I can help” or asking “how can I help?” is a way of removing responsibility from ourselves too. It puts even more emotional labor on the person in taking the time to respond and think of something that’s “helpful” but “not too burdensome” and “culturally and relationally appropriate” etc. etc. It feels like wanting to get cookies for offering help but not doing the work that actually helps.

[Jessie Lee]

I’m thinking too about the power dynamics around this question. As a white woman, I come into the interaction with power the other person does not have, that we both are well aware I can flex against them at any time. So what do they do? Do they answer honestly and risk alienating me and risk whatever retaliation I could take? Do they answer disingenuously to placate me, knowing the risk I pose to them? It’s lose lose. This makes me think of a discussion we’ve had here about how, in a given interaction with a person of color, I am either a corrective experience or secondary trauma.

[Julia Tayler]

I identify with the comments about wanting to have guidance all the time. A perpetual toddler. I tend to be that way too. I feel like I need to be shown what to do and how to help. I get nervous that on my own I will definitely mess it up. Working on resilience and some self belief.

[Robin Van Haste]

Regarding #2: I should REALLY stop asking people if they are OK… whether BIPOC or not. Clearly, I already know that they’re not OK. I’m just forcing them to say that they’re fine so that I don’t have to respond to their pain.

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

I agree. Thinking this through based on the article made me realize i need to stop asking that question any time it is actually obvious that someone is not okay and should not be okay given the situation. (I will still ask my husband as he is hard to read and seems not okay even when there is nothing going on that I can see and he often is fine – just has a face that looks upset). I do feel that it is even more important when interacting with POC however given the things I mention in my initial comment – the inherent risk involved when a POC interacts with a wp and how unreliable we are and how quickly we start out “nice” and then turn to being dismissive or to attacking.

[Danielle Holcombe]

I think many white people entering social justice circles further weaponize niceness exactly by asking to be led around by the hand.

We walk into the space saying, I’m here to listen and learn. I’ll put myself under your leadership. Teach me.

And for this, we think we deserve thanks and cookies.

That’s bullshit. We can see with our eyes what is wrong and in no other scenario do we render ourselves so incapable. It is the “easy way” – the easy way to appear to care, to appear to be one of the good ones.

Honestly, I’m so glad (now) that black folks see through me. I *want* to be called out or in on that behavior.

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

I still walk that line though of not wanting the easy way and to be led around by the hand AND not wanting to come in like a know it all and take over and think I know how to do racial justice work. I am not incapable, and I have a lot to learn to set aside the supremacist weapons I have grown up with so as not to cause further harm as I am working side by side others.

[Rebecca McClinton]

(cross posted) There is so much packed in Austin Channing Brown’s article. Thanks for sharing, Clare, and encouraging us to consider these questions. (1) WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? In this work I think Ms. Brown hits the nail on the head when she addresses fear of conflict, fear of not being liked, fear of the destruction that comes with challenging systems. I’ve seen all those in myself. I’d add to that fear of exhaustion (being asked more than I FEEL I can give…a self-protective standpoint, and also linked to the fear of saying no to other things), fear of retaliation, fear of not knowing how to respond, fear of the public eye/media, and fear of hurting others (which I’ve learned here is really another self preservation to avoid the pain of disappointing). Engaging here has been SO helpful in working through these. The requirements here of engaging in each post thoughtfully, and having conversation with other walkers has really helped me push through those in a lot of ways, but there have still been times when I haven’t stood and spoken up or acted reflexively due to defaulting to the fears described above and I need to continue working at them. (2) WHAT QUESTIONS HAVE I ASKED BLACK/BROWN PEOPLE THAT I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERS TO/WHY/HOW DID THIS IMPACT THEM? The first thing that comes to mind for me here, is that I’ve seen in myself a need for ‘hearing more’, as if all that’s been presenting and described isn’t enough. I shouldn’t need a shred bit more of info to believe every bit of what Black and Brown people say about their experiences. As to the ‘why’ of that, I think it’s self preservation again…if there’s some of it that’s not true that some of me I can let off the hook. As for how that lands and impacts Black and Brown people, I know how pissed I get when I’m not taken seriously, not believed or dismissed. It’s soul-crushing. (3) A SITUATION WHERE I STAYED SILENT/WHO DID IT HURT/PROTECT AND WHAT WILL I DO DIFFERENTLY NEXT TIME? If I think about a theme/grouping of situations where I have stayed silent, three situations come to mind, one is when in groups, another when in a hurry (eg: when I’m scrolling and rolling on social media, and think I have to have just the right thing to say), and when it comes to humor/not calling out jokes. Staying silent in those situations protects me and/or ‘protects’ those saying/doing the harmful things from the accountability that is required. ‘protect’ feels like maybe not the right word, because it implies keeping safe from harm, when really accountability doesn’t ‘harm’ anything or anyone. It’s not whyte people that need protecting. Moving forward I will continue to work through those clenches and desire to say just the right thing. Too often that’s me working to word things to create the least wake possible, just another more sneaky version of avoiding responsibility on my own part.

[Shara Cody]

You added fear of exhaustion or saying no to other things and I think it’s a biggie. I see myself in it too. I can convince myself that I don’t have the energy or the time or that this isn’t the right moment because XYZ is also happening in 5min at literally any moment in any day. Excuses and toxic what about me-ing is a massive root to dig out for me.

[Christina Sonas]

This is important and has me reviewing all the mundane things I might choose to prioritize over speaking up to mitigate harm to a BIPOC. I’m late for an appointment. The ice cream will melt. I was planning to garden. Others are relying on me. (That last one because I was thinking about my performance commitments.) That would be an endless list of selfish justifications. Instead, I could make a very short list of the only things I will allow myself to prioritize, like dealing with a health emergency.

[Clare Steward]

I have a hard time balancing and prioritizing and do end up burning out because I am trying to do too many things at once. I am thinking more along the lines of the unshakeable ethos that Lace talks about …that it is part of everything, the underlying foundation in every action I take so that the North Star is always front and center and in focus.

I am looking at a quote on my wall right now from Maya Angelou “You don’t have to think about doing the right thing. If you’re for the right thing, then you do it without thinking.” @julie

The thing is, my foundation is not ingrained and it is not unshakeable at this point. There is a lot of rooting and weeding that must be done. I acknowledge that if I have a constant focus on the North Star making it the underlying priority for everything, I am doing part of the necessary work every day AND I also recognize I have to be intentional and disciplined about putting in the work necessary so that doing the right thing comes naturally.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by  Clare Steward.

[Shara Cody]

@clare that “unshakeable ethos” is definitely where I’m trying to go and I can see how once there it will be the only priority and all the excuses will be the things that I let fall away. Right now I’m constantly distracted as I try to change my behaviors to lessen harm to BIPOC. Those weeds are big in number and size but I’ll keep rooting and walking.

[Emily Holzknecht]

*crossposted*

1. After thinking about this for some time, I think the most honest answer is I am afraid that other people will think I am wrong, wrong in what I say or wrong for saying anything at all. I am afraid of being perceived as wrong and of investing the time in convincing others that what I am saying is valid and should be considered. When I am avoiding speaking up because I am avoiding being perceived as wrong or I am avoiding investing the time to convince others that what I am saying is valid, then I am choosing my own comfort over Black and brown people.

2. I am trouble thinking of an answer to this question when it comes to adults. In terms of children, particularly early in my teaching career, I have asked children including Black and brown children many questions that I already know the answers to. Later I learned how to teach in ways that are not non-stop quizzing and to manage behavior in ways that aren’t asking questions as a form of shaming such as “What were you thinking?!” or “What should you have done instead?” With the quizzing questions, I taught that way because that was what I had experienced of teaching, that it is a top-down method with the goal of getting preexisting knowledge onto blank slates. Later I came to better see the richness that children bring with them to school as well as their ability to create knowledge and culture rather than just absorb what already exists. With the managing behavior, shaming questions, I asked those sorts of questions because I was using poor relational ethics and power-over to force the behavior I wanted. Both of these types of questions impacted them by indoctrinating them into white supremacy culture as well as working to decrease a sense of self-worth.

3. There have been so many times when I stayed silent when I should have said something. Most of these have not been big blatant in-your-face situations. The situation with Lace and Holly I did too little too late and that was a pretty big and blatant situation. Even in the smaller, less blatant situations my silence protected myself and the speaker/poster and white people in general while hurting Black and brown people either directly or indirectly because what was said was not disagreed with by me or more information was not given by me or those speaking up were not backed up by me. And sometimes I have realized later that a particular situation was one in which I should have said something and didn’t. Then it’s easy for me to shrug and say it’s “too late”, but in the future I must revisit it, re-bring it up however possible to address it even if it’s not the perfect moment to do so. It’s not too late. Or if for some reason it is too late, then I have to work on mitigating harm.

[Emily Holzknecht]

*crossposted*
1. After thinking about this for some time, I think the most honest answer is I am afraid that other people will think I am wrong, wrong in what I say or wrong for saying anything at all. I am afraid of being perceived as wrong and of investing the time in convincing others that what I am saying is valid and should be considered. When I am avoiding speaking up because I am avoiding being perceived as wrong or I am avoiding investing the time to convince others that what I am saying is valid, then I am choosing my own comfort over Black and brown people.

2. I am trouble thinking of an answer to this question when it comes to adults. In terms of children, particularly early in my teaching career, I have asked children including Black and brown children many questions that I already know the answers to. Later I learned how to teach in ways that are not non-stop quizzing and to manage behavior in ways that aren’t asking questions as a form of shaming such as “What were you thinking?!” or “What should you have done instead?” With the quizzing questions, I taught that way because that was what I had experienced of teaching, that it is a top-down method with the goal of getting preexisting knowledge onto blank slates. Later I came to better see the richness that children bring with them to school as well as their ability to create knowledge and culture rather than just absorb what already exists. With the managing behavior, shaming questions, I asked those sorts of questions because I was using poor relational ethics and power-over to force the behavior I wanted. Both of these types of questions impacted them by indoctrinating them into white supremacy culture as well as working to decrease a sense of self-worth.

3. There have been so many times when I stayed silent when I should have said something. Most of these have not been big blatant in-your-face situations. The situation with Lace and Holly I did too little too late and that was a pretty big and blatant situation. Even in the smaller, less blatant situations my silence protected myself and the speaker/poster and white people in general while hurting Black and brown people either directly or indirectly because what was said was not disagreed with by me or more information was not given by me or those speaking up were not backed up by me. And sometimes I have realized later that a particular situation was one in which I should have said something and didn’t. Then it’s easy for me to shrug and say it’s “too late”, but in the future I must revisit it, re-bring it up however possible to address it even if it’s not the perfect moment to do so. It’s not too late. Or if for some reason it is too late, then I have to work on mitigating harm.

[Emily Holzknecht]

I am having trouble getting my comment to post here, so I am adding this intro sentence in case it helps.

1. After thinking about this for some time, I think the most honest answer is I am afraid that other people will think I am wrong, wrong in what I say or wrong for saying anything at all. I am afraid of being perceived as wrong and of investing the time in convincing others that what I am saying is valid and should be considered. When I am avoiding speaking up because I am avoiding being perceived as wrong or I am avoiding investing the time to convince others that what I am saying is valid, then I am choosing my own comfort over Black and brown people.

2. I am trouble thinking of an answer to this question when it comes to adults. In terms of children, particularly early in my teaching career, I have asked children including Black and brown children many questions that I already know the answers to. Later I learned how to teach in ways that are not non-stop quizzing and to manage behavior in ways that aren’t asking questions as a form of shaming such as “What were you thinking?!” or “What should you have done instead?” With the quizzing questions, I taught that way because that was what I had experienced of teaching, that it is a top-down method with the goal of getting preexisting knowledge onto blank slates. Later I came to better see the richness that children bring with them to school as well as their ability to create knowledge and culture rather than just absorb what already exists. With the managing behavior, shaming questions, I asked those sorts of questions because I was using poor relational ethics and power-over to force the behavior I wanted. Both of these types of questions impacted them by indoctrinating them into white supremacy culture as well as working to decrease a sense of self-worth.

3. There have been so many times when I stayed silent when I should have said something. Most of these have not been big blatant in-your-face situations. The situation with Lace and Holly I did too little too late and that was a pretty big and blatant situation. Even in the smaller, less blatant situations my silence protected myself and the speaker/poster and white people in general while hurting Black and brown people either directly or indirectly because what was said was not disagreed with by me or more information was not given by me or those speaking up were not backed up by me. And sometimes I have realized later that a particular situation was one in which I should have said something and didn’t. Then it’s easy for me to shrug and say it’s “too late”, but in the future I must revisit it, re-bring it up however possible to address it even if it’s not the perfect moment to do so. It’s not too late. Or if for some reason it is too late, then I have to work on mitigating harm.

*crossposted*

[Jessie Lee]

This is a good point, that we aren’t absolved if the time to speak up has passed. That’s the time to work on mitigating harm, like you said.

[Shara Cody]

I’m absolutely a nice white person where being nice keeps it superficial and comfortable for me. What am I afraid of? I think everything in the article applies. If I try to boil it down to one thing I would say rejection. And rooted in the fear of rejection is power and position. It’s a fear of what I might not get or might no longer get. And that means that I recognize that white supremacy is real and is harming BIPOC all around me or I wouldn’t be seeking to protect my position and power.

What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them? I haven’t asked any questions which means I haven’t gotten in the car; this silence is still violence to Black and brown people.

Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough? Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect? What will you do differently next time? Yes, definitely. My silence always hurts the POC and protects the person causing the harm who is usually white because I’m still protecting whiteness as a default. Next time I will say something brief to call out the harm and get started instead of getting stuck in thinking about what’s the best thing or right way to say it. That means lessening and mitigating the harm to BIPOC reflexively first instead of making it pretty for the perp. I think once I speak up I’ll be able to continue the conversation.

[Christina Sonas]

1) I am afraid of: Offending the person I’m calling in for harm. Stepping in where I don’t belong, which is another way of saying of being chastised for stepping in, because if I’m thinking of stepping in, I’ve already decided the situation warrants me doing that. Disturbing my Nice White Life, because if I start calling wh people in for their racist behavior, that essentially means calling in everyone I know.

2) I often ask the question, “How are you feeling?” I ask it because I don’t want to presume to know. It brings exasperation, frustration, anger. The things that BIPOC experience under the feet of white supremacy from people like me are not subtle and nuanced things with a variety of ensuing feelings. My fictive imagination should be more than sufficient to set me on the right road about how they are feeling.

3) I can think of situations where I stayed silent. It protected me at the expense of those who were truly being harmed, who were now harmed by me as well as by whatever the situation was. Next time, I will speak up immediately about bad behavior toward Black and brown people, whether it is overtly racist or disguised in some way.

[Clare Steward]

“….That essentially means calling in everyone I know.” Yes, absolutely this. I have been thinking about this a lot lately and how often I will let things slide because it is exhausting to call people in constantly. It is draining. And then I think about how that thought just exemplifies my white privilege….that I can remove myself from tiring situations. I don’t have to live every day of my life under scrutiny and subjected to constant onslaughts of aggression and judgement based on the color of my skin.

[Shannon Brescher Shea]

“What are you afraid of? Release all the bullshit answers about your own frailty, and get honest.”

Usually, I’m afraid of one of two things. One, that I’ll get “yelled” at by people. Not in terms of actual volume, but in terms of scorn or shame. Not that they won’t like me because I usually don’t assume people like me but that they’ll respond with an active distain. This one I can usually just push past because I’ve gotten that reception in the past over things that were far less important. The second is that I’ll say something “wrong.” This is often rooted in shame as well in terms of being worried that I’ll be called out by someone and have to apologize. There’s also an aspect of worry that by saying the wrong thing or at the wrong time that I’ll be hurting or speaking over someone else who should have the floor, like Black women. This one usually doesn’t prevent me from speaking but instead makes me think more thoroughly about what I say and if I’m supporting others rather than talking over them.

What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them?

I remember not directly asking but sort of requiring a justification from a group of Black people about why a certain interaction with police was racist. I didn’t know the answer to it, but also didn’t trust their perception of the situation. I’m pretty sure it was annoying and exhausting to be asked this once again.

(I don’t remember a specific question I’ve asked so that’s why I didn’t answer with one. It’s certainly possible I have and don’t remember it.)

Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough? Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect? What will you do differently next time?

Most of them have been when’s something seems “borderline” to me – where someone is saying something that I’ve decided to stop saying but is both socially acceptable and I don’t call others on, like “spirit animal” or “crazy.” Most of the time, it’s not borderline – if I’ve decided to stop saying it because it’s harmful, it’s harmful, period. My silence hurt people from that group who were present at that time as well as people from those groups who would hear those words from the same people later. It protected me and the person I should have said something to. Next time, I’ll take the time and energy to speak up.

[Julia Tayler]

I’m definitely a nice white person. I’m conflict avoidant and want to be helpful but it doesn’t always work out that way.

“What are you afraid of? Release all the bullshit answers about your own frailty, and get honest.” Like someone else mentioned I’m afraid of being wrong. I’m afraid of saying or writing the wrong or hurtful thing. I like to be liked.

What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them?<div>I can’t think of a specific instance but it would probably have been about a situation where I wanted to see all sides of a story. Instead of doing my own research I wanted someone to walk me through it.
<div>
</div><div>Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough?Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect? What will you do differently next time? I’ve stayed silent under the guise of “if you don’t have anything nice to say” more times than I want to admit. My husband has lots of different opinions and I used to stay silent a lot. It was easier than debating with him. That’s changed but I still default to staying quiet. That’s something that I’m working on. </div></div>

[Clare Steward]

Julia, I also like to be liked. I feel a need to be a people pleaser and avoid conflict so that people will look upon me favorably. You said that you are afraid of being wrong or saying something hurtful. Who are you afraid to hurt? Have you also considered the fact that silence can also cause pain and harm? I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this.

[Julia Tayler]

Hi Clare-

I have been afraid to say the wrong thing or articulate something ineffectively and I let that stop me from saying anything. I do realize now that saying nothing is as hurtful or more hurtful than saying something. I now realize that white supremacy teaches us to wait for the perfect reply. Or to hope that someone else will come along and say it for you. I realize that saying nothing if you don’t have anything nice to say isn’t right. My default has also been snark and sarcasm. I’m glad to be here learning new ways to listen and communicate.

[Jen Scaggs]

I can definitely relate to “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”

“What are you afraid of? Release all the bullshit answers about your own frailty, and get honest.”

Sounding clumsy in my answer, not saying it right, disrupting the family dynamics (I have held a long standing rule not to talk about politics or other contentious topics at family get togethers).

What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them?

I can’t really think of an example of questions I have directly asked Black and Brown people. Last year I found myself asking google what I can do for racial justice, when I was really just looking for a list of easy boxes to check. The real answer I know is the hard work we are trying to do here.

Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough? Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect? What will you do differently next time?

The most recent example I can think of, was when a contractor came to our house to give us a quote on something and he related a story to us starting with, “This is not a race thing at all, but….” I just smiled politely and let him continue on, protecting myself from momentary discomfort and awkwardness. Unfortunately, I think at least one of my kids was within ear shot and I should have set a better example. My silence likely harms all of the BIPOC people that contractor will come in contact with in one way or another. Next time I hear someone tell a racist story or joke I will try to remember that a moment of awkwardness is worth the positive impact that I could have by speaking up.

[Robin Van Haste]

I relate to your concern about sounding clumsy and not saying things right! And I realize that this is centering on myself and looking good. My silence is more harmful to others than the clumsy answer would be to me.

[Clare Steward]

I can also relate to the discomfort of sounding clumsy. Preparation is key- I have analyzed several conversations I have had after the fact and realize that I need to put in the work to be able to respond knowledgeably and confidently when someone says something that is untrue or biased. This practice space has helped immensely and helps to get past those personal clenches and immediate defensiveness that I feel….that fight or flight response that kicks in (thinking about recent posts from Lace regarding fear here). I have a tendency to lean towards reading, gathering facts and information etc but the danger to become a “well read racist” exists in that behavior AND the tendency to try to use facts to justify someone’s humanity which is also extremely harmful.

[Robin Van Haste]

1. What am I afraid of? I think I would have struggled to answer this question on my own, but Austin Channing Brown lays it out clearly. I’m afraid that I’ll pay a price for speaking out. I’m afraid that I’ll be gaslighted into believing that I misunderstood… there’s really no problem.

2. What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Frankly, Black and Brown people have only been spared my dumb questions because (a) I just don’t know many Black and Brown people, and (b) the pandemic has prevented me from getting to know my new coworkers. The question that I probably would have asked: What can I do to help? ()

3. Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough? I had been dating a guy for a couple of weeks, and he made some racist comments (just to me). I should have attempted to change his mind, but instead I just dumped him without explaining why. My silence means that he continued to to be a harmful person. Next time, I need to take the risk of engaging in discussion.

[Clare Steward]

Austin Channing Brown definitely lays it out clearly and calls a thing a thing. The fact that she was able to call a thing a thing and name so plainly what I struggled to admit to myself is definitely cause for my further interrogation. It seems very clear now- what am I afraid of? I am afraid of losing power/control/ benefits and my position on the ladder of white supremacy.

Your response to #3 made me reflect on times I have kept my mouth shut and then just distanced myself from a problematic/racist person vs confronting my fears/discomfort and speaking up. It reminds me of the pinned post with Claudia Rankine where she talks about staying in the car and having those tough discussions. There is no progress and no chance for change if words go unsaid.

With that said, I am also reminded of conversations we have had, lead by Lace, about divorcing ourselves from the outcome when we walk with others. We must apply our praxis, see the person eye to eye, mind our slosh and practice winning strategies and know that the other person may not receive what we are saying- what is important is that we are unwavering from the North Star and others are watching and listening, we are watching and listening to ourselves and we must be unshakeable. For white people like me, it is important to remember that being triggered or activated is not being harmed and although the conversations may be difficult, we can not be passive when it comes to lessening and mitigating harm. I am still internalizing this and working on uncentering myself and

being effective, unwavering and reflexive when I engage.

[Danielle Holcombe]

I’m afraid ultimately of rejection. I always have been. That’s so curious to me in this moment because of the ways we talk here about community and distancing.

I’m so afraid of rejection, that I’ve avoided really being fully a part of community with others, and yet I’m still afraid of even “superficial” rejection, by those I’m not even in community with.

I think this also ties in with what Emily said – I’m afraid of being “wrong” (or of being told by others that I’m wrong when I’m convinced I’m not wrong).

This article is one I’m saving. There was a lot to glean there and I will read it again. I will also share it with other white folks I’m in conversation with because she does a great job clearly explaining how we weaponize niceness, and I just know so damn many “nice white people”.

I’m positive I’ve asked black people questions I already know the answer to but I’m struggling to think of a specific example right now. It was helpful to read other comments and contemplate the idea of asking someone if they are okay.

My questions or comments reveal my focus and I do know that so often my focus is on whiteness. I can think of quite a few conversations I’ve had with my partner where he is sharing some part of black culture that I may not be very familiar with, with me, where I will strive to insert whiteness. I am cringing just thinking about it. Maybe we’re watching a show with an all black cast and I’m asking how they talk about white people and racism, etc. I can still feel the same heat in my face that I felt when he told me “it’s not about y’all.”

Of course it isn’t, and why had I assumed it would be? Because my focus stays on me.

I know I still need to answer the third question. I’ll be back!

[Dee (Dalina) Weinfurtner]

Oh, yeah, rejection is a big one for me too! Totally relate.

[Jessie Lee]

What am I afraid of?

I mean, exactly what Austin Channing Brown says I’m afraid of.

I’ve typed one comment after another out only to say to myself, “that’s a bullshit answer” and erase it so I can be more direct. Clench much?

My niceness is a way to straddle the fence, to appear neutral, which is a way to maintain maximum access with minimum effort. Like Austin Channing Brown says, I’m afraid of the costs of speaking up. Specifically, I’m afraid of losing access to places where I was previously welcomed and liked, which gave me a cover for making choices that uphold white supremacy. But these places aren’t the same as community and access to them isn’t belonging. I’m afraid of facing the truth of my own hypocrisy, and not just facing it, but letting others see it too.

Pivoting more to race, I’m not actually afraid of speaking up. I’m resistant to it bc the more I speak up, the more I’ll have to confront and change ethically problematic behaviors that I engage in routinely if I’m to bring my life into alignment with the values I claim/want to hold. That’s not fear, it’s… ambivalence. It’s one foot in and one out. When I say I’m afraid that speaking up will cost me xyz, what I really mean is that I don’t want to take the risk of losing xyz. I have to be able to name that so I can respond to it accordingly.

Will come back for the other questions, I’m still pondering this first one.

[Dee (Dalina) Weinfurtner]

Before last summer, I was a neutral all the way person especially when it came to anything “political”. I have had moments in my life where I felt virtuous because I could “see both sides”. But it was easier to stand in neutrality than it is to take the side of the oppressed and challenge for justice. Taking the risk to get all in really has to be a conscious decision. Every moment of every day has to be working in favor of justice and the North Star. Happy to be working on these things in community with you, Jessie!

[Michelle Wicks Cypher]

This is very much me, feeling virtuous as I pride myself on being able to “see both sides” and tout it as one of my strengths. I do believe there are situations where it is a strength – my ability to work with most people and to see more than one perspective and to recognize that what is right for me is not necessarily right for someone else and it is a good thing – in some situations. Just because I love dark chocolate and think it is far better than milk chocolate – does not mean someone who prefers milk chocolate is “wrong”. There are definitely situations though where it isn’t about seeing both sides or appreciating someone else having a different “opinion”. When it comes to someone’ humanity and right to be seen as fully human and not less than – it is not an “opinion”. That is when there is no neutral. I am either supporting the oppressor or supporting the oppressed – no middle ground.

[Jessie Lee]

Yes, exactly this Michelle. I think it can be a strength to see both sides if it means using fictive imagination to hold people with compassion and meet them where they are – with kind candor. But also… exactly as you said: “when it comes to someone’s humanity and right to be seen as fully human and not less than, there is no neutral. I am either supporting the oppressor or supporting the oppressed – no middle ground.” I continue to learn here about the nuances of both/and… holding two things at once. I can make sure I’m never silent when it comes to naming dehumanization for what it is, and I can meet people where they are without looking down my nose at them.

[Jessie Lee]

Happy to be working on these things with you, too, Dee! Yes, I definitely have had that “virtuous” feeling about seeing both sides and then claiming neutrality, especially politically. Here I’ve learned that the topics of conversation I’ve grown up believing I should avoid talking about are exactly the topics I need to talk about w/ other white people to change the status quo. Not talking about them serves a purpose of maintaining white people’s power over people of color.

[Jessie Lee]

2. What questions have you asked Black and Brown people that you already know the answers to? Why? How did this impact them?

“What can I do to help/support?” is a big one that comes to mind. I’m sure there are many others that aren’t registering right now. I asked– deep breath– because I wanted to be spoon fed a checklist and seen as “in solidarity with.” I don’t know for certain how this impacted them because I never asked directly. I have a pretty good guess based on what I’ve learned here that it caused exhaustion mostly. Another white woman pretending to be of service, but dictating the terms of engagement and prioritizing the optics and personal gain above all else.

3. Can you think of a situation where you stayed silent, under the guise of not knowing what to say or for fear of not saying it well enough? Who did your silence hurt and who did it protect? What will you do differently next time?

Yes. When people I knew were commenting with contempt about the protesters and Black Lives Matter, I felt that familiar unsettled feeling inside and knew the words were problematic but felt “I didn’t know enough” to make any kind of statement about it. My silence hurt Black people who, because of me and my unwillingness to speak out against injustice, cannot safely call a thing a thing and speak to how they’re affected by systemic racism. By letting it slide, my silence protected white people like me who either a) think it’s okay to harbor these views and be influenced by them or b) believe that it’s not okay, but aren’t willing to risk being at odds with other white people who disagree. The impact is the same. Next time, I will remind myself when I feel that niggling upon recognizing something as unjust that I don’t have to be an expert to tell the truth. I don’t have to present a plan to the problem, or take responsibility for the other person’s response in the conversation. I just have to stand up and say or ask something that doesn’t function to protect the position of power I hold over Black and Brown people because of my whiteness.

[Shara Cody]

” I don’t have to be an expert to tell the truth” is so important to realize to become reflexive in speaking up. And not needing to “take responsibility for the other person’s response” is something I have stumbled on that is avoiding eye to eye conversation and accountability. It’s me covering for the person causing harm.

[Dee (Dalina) Weinfurtner]

Wow, that was a lot to confront by Austin Channing Brown and I really appreciate it! My difficulty in speaking up definitely has fears halting me. I do think there are several other reasons that make it difficult too. Silence not only is always in favor of the status quo and the oppressor, and by default puts Black and Brown people at greater risk but also it doesn’t favor me either. I think the white christian evalngelical gospel heavily relies on fears and so growing up being heavily influenced by that culture I received a lot of messaging that kept me afraid of a lot of things but specifically of questioning the status quo and the white supremacy driven broad authority as some kind of universal truth. The moment you start really questioning anything you are being told in that context, everything becomes shaky which can put your entire support network at risk. Also, as you added, Clare, “neutrality” was engrained as a really positive virtue. Stepping away from white evangelical Christianity was honestly one of the biggest steps towards becoming active in racial and social justice. Being active in racial and social justice just didn’t even seem like a possibility when I was in evangelical christinity. Sometimes I stay silent because I am just not sure what to say that will actually have a positive impact but I also know sometimes I have let fears get the best of me. I will say, I don’t think it is always conscious in the moment but if I really confront and examine myself many fears do come up. Some are simpler like I don’t want to get it “wrong”. Sometimes I have actual safety concerns, to be super vulnerable and honest, I have safety concerns because both my first and last name are very rare, my name is actually the one and only person with my name and it is super easy to look my name up and find my address really quick on google. I also second guess speaking up sometimes because I’m not sure how to respond to potential comments challenging it, I am not afraid of standing firm through it but more afraid of not having the energy or the right conversational skills to go about it effectively enough.

I have definitely used silence and not asking questions more than I have actually asked questions I already know answers to. For example, I have avoided getting input on a topic from Black or Brown people because I was sure the response would challenge my own thoughts on the topic. I would imagine given the weapon that is silence that this very well could be worse. I wouldn’t say I approach things this way anymore but I have to keep examining myself to make sure that I continue to move away from this and don’t revert back especially when under pressure.

I would say I stay pretty silent on most things. This includes issues that directly affect me but especially on “controversial” issues. This hurts not only myself but those who intersect in the most oppressed groups (Black Trans women and nonbinary people). Honestly, this is the reason why I am here at LoR. I Know this whole community setup and the guidelines are extremely challenging and therefore uncomfortable for me but I know that if I keep practicing, showing up and ultimately not giving up there is so much growth here for this specific thing. I trust that the way LoR challenges my fears and specifically asks me to speak up and engage in community is exactly what I need to find my voice and end the silence. This ultimately in service of the North Star.

[Jessie Lee]

In my experience, you are absolutely right that engaging here as Lace prescribes is key to overcoming that resistance to speaking up. I’m not sure if you’ve reached the pinned post (called starter here in the cafe) with Claudia Rankine– in it she has this line that sticks with me. In response to the interviewer’s observation that speaking up about racial inequity feels so dangerous, Claudia Rankine says “It’s only dangerous because you don’t do it. Things get ordinary very fast.” Following the guidelines and coming to Lace on Race as the rehearsal lab it’s intended to be, in my experience, has made speaking up an ordinary thing. That doesn’t mean I don’t stumble over my words– I definitely do, and then I have to go back and think about what I could’ve done differently– but speaking up has become a non-negotiable part of my praxis. I remember when it wasn’t, like you’re talking about. I remember not long ago that I was silent and protective ultimately of my own comfort. I think a lot of community members would tell you that changes with steady walking and forging of relationships here.

[Clare Steward]

Great call out on the pinned post! This is a great one for me to revisit. Consistent work in the LoR community makes acting in line with the NS reflexive. Revisiting conversations I have had where I have been uncomfortable and clumsy and actually verbalizing how I would respond definitely helps me formulate my thoughts for future conversations. If I am vocalizing to myself, I can also really think about how my words might land on Black and Brown people without them landing on anyone- it is a way to practice without inflicting harm. I am finding that writing what I want to say carries less pressure than speaking it in a conversation. If I am writing a response, I have time to look it over and re-work it. I don’t have that luxury in a conversation.

[Rhonda Freeman]

Well, alrighty, then. I am going to have to share here with you all and then copy and paste to another thread. I just watched myself (for the third day in a row) read through the latest discussions and not respond to any of you or say anything at all! Every single thing that we share here about white people, and especially white women have come up! 1. goodness, I don’t have anything new to say! 2. I am so tired, I can’t be articulate. 3. I probably will just cause more harm with anything I might write right now. 4. I am not even smart enough to understand this article! Okay, that’s enough slipping into the habits of white supremacy. The guidelines say engage every day and respond to at least two people. That will indicate to Lace and other black and brown people that I am still walking. Still working on mitigating harm.

[Danielle Holcombe]

I said I would come back to answer the third question and here I am. I’m sure there are many instances where I have stayed silent that are not coming to my mind right now. What does come to mind is a current and ongoing situation where I’ve been specifically asked NOT to speak out by someone I’m very close with. I’m being vague about the circumstance intentionally but my friend, who is Black is certain that they would face repercussions if I spoke up because our friendship is known.

Keeping the North Star in my mind and knowing that it applies to all Black people, individually and collectively, I was able to come up with ways that I could still engage in certain conversations (that my friend was comfortable with) even though I have continued to leave certain other things left unsaid.

It seems like it can get complicated to think about lessening and mitigating harm to Black people when the individual and the collective may not be aligned on what is needed. But it was helpful to me, as I worked to navigate these questions and conversations, to have relational ethics tools in my belt and the North Star for my compass.

[Author]

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